Getting Stereo Imagining with One Guitar

[oldbobd]

In 1998 I began producing a 3 piece rock group.  There was one guitar in the group.  I used various methods of mixing this one guitar to get a full image that was balanced left to right.  I used eq, delay and phase techniques to simulate stereo, provide fiullness and image things creatively.  I used to write and publish techniques that I used in my weekly Column, Recording Website Tip Of The Week. 

Here's Recording WebsiteTip #7, last published March, 2000 entitled "Recording Huge Wide Rhythm Guitars"

http://www.recordingeq.com/rw/tip7.html

bob

[Dino Ziogas]

That's a good tip oldbob. I'll just expand on it by saying monitor in mono while placing the distant mic [effectively you'll listen if the phase cancellations between close-distant mic work for or against you].

[pyrael]

Awesome tip bob!!

It mentions a previous tip; for a lead guitar, but I could not find it. Is this tip still available?

[Dino Ziogas]

That tip is basically as follows:

Close mics provide distinction, distant mics provide size. Use one close and one distant. Before blending however delay the close mic to match the distant either using the old 1ft = 1ms delay or do it bt zooming in the waveforms in the DAW. This way the two tracks will play together nicely.

My addition: Delaying the close mic when you blend with the distant has a certain sound, like time-aligning drums. It either works or it doesn't work. This technique implies that the distant mic is still in the direct field and not in the ambient field because if it is in the ambient field it has little phase coherence with the direct sound and thus little chance of phase problems to occur when blending with the close mic.

[oldbobd]

That's a good tip oldbob. I'll just expand on it by saying monitor in mono while placing the distant mic [effectively you'll listen if the phase cancellations between close-distant mic work for or against you].

What you get with this setup is complimentry comb filters on the two sides (whatever is cancelled on the left is accented on the right) and in mono the mic 6" away is cancelled out. 

Less than full cancellation can be obtained by adjusting panning so it is not full left/right.

Take Care

bob

[Dino Ziogas]

That's a good tip oldbob. I'll just expand on it by saying monitor in mono while placing the distant mic [effectively you'll listen if the phase cancellations between close-distant mic work for or against you].

What you get with this setup is complimentry comb filters on the two sides (whatever is cancelled on the left is accented on the right) and in mono the mic 6" away is cancelled out. 

Less than full cancellation can be obtained by adjusting panning so it is not full left/right.

Take Care

bob

Sorry I wasn't clear. I don't mean to monitor the final 3 track [close, distant, distant reversed polarity] in mono - of course the distant cancels out. I mean monitor only the close and distant to determine which distance [6-12in] is the most appropriate. I do it regularly.

[pyrael]

Thanks Dino!! 

I'll have to experiment with the two techniques together and see what mess I can make 

[oldbobd]

That's a good tip oldbob. I'll just expand on it by saying monitor in mono while placing the distant mic [effectively you'll listen if the phase cancellations between close-distant mic work for or against you].

What you get with this setup is complimentry comb filters on the two sides (whatever is cancelled on the left is accented on the right) and in mono the mic 6" away is cancelled out. 

Less than full cancellation can be obtained by adjusting panning so it is not full left/right.

Take Care

bob

Sorry I wasn't clear. I don't mean to monitor the final 3 track [close, distant, distant reversed polarity] in mono - of course the distant cancels out. I mean monitor only the close and distant to determine which distance [6-12in] is the most appropriate. I do it regularly.

Gootcha - good point.

Bob

[oldbobd]

Awesome tip bob!!

It mentions a previous tip; for a lead guitar, but I could not find it. Is this tip still available?

I'll find it and repost it - need to update the links before I post it

[Johnny]

I wonder if you fellows would expound on this technique inasmuch as the room is concerned. Would a determining factor include whether or not the room was live or dead?  I've fiddled around with mic placement as I've always read that Jimmy Page employed these techniques often, but I always wondered if he knew what he was doing, or if it were just dumb luck, being as the medium was still in it's relative infancy.

Plus, I simply enjoy reading all of the tech talk you guys can get into. Sometimes you all just dazzle me with such a salvo of knowledge, I'm scared to post.

[Dino Ziogas]

I wonder if you fellows would expound on this technique inasmuch as the room is concerned. Would a determining factor include whether or not the room was live or dead?  I've fiddled around with mic placement as I've always read that Jimmy Page employed these techniques often, but I always wondered if he knew what he was doing, or if it were just dumb luck, being as the medium was still in it's relative infancy.

Plus, I simply enjoy reading all of the tech talk you guys can get into. Sometimes you all just dazzle me with such a salvo of knowledge, I'm scared to post.

No need to feel intimidated. Post your heart out and we'll try to explain the reasoning behind it. Most of the times it's unknown rudimentary stuff that keep you from understaning something a bit more complicated.

Anyway, regarding the room thing. You've got to have a room that sounds good or at least a few places in the room that sound decent. Make sure the mics compliment each other. Put one close mic and then place a distant one with both mics monitored.

In any case put some bass trapping in that room...

[Johnny]

Okay. Assuming that I have an unstable grasp on the science of tetrahedra: Say that I've a room that is "half dead" i.e. hard ceiling with two adjoining hard walls, while the floor is carpeted and the other two walls are treated. I've calculated the fundamental and harmonic resonant frequencies of the room and addressed these as well with ceiling hang gobos and I've nailed the mobile acoustic baffles (the cats) feet to the floor.

I keep my mics out of the aforementioned corners: Will there still be a necessity for bass traps? The room STILL has "a sound" that I don't fully appreciate. As you might guess, I fear that EQing the room requires sledgehammers.

[Dino Ziogas]

Bass trapping -even if present on some of the corners/walls- affects the general behaviour of the room so any problems with the bass range will be only topical. I'd put the distant mics towards the live end and somewhere where the sound is good and compliments the close mic - I'd stay away from the corners/walls as a start though.

If you have the luxury, move the amp around the room to see if one position is "better" than others. If you feel like it, with the amp sitting on its optimal place, do a little test to determine the critical distance, ie the distance where the direct sound from the amp is at equal level as the reflections. The part of the room starting from the amp and up to the critical distance is called the direct field [where the direct sound is louder than room reflections]. The part of the room beyond the critical distance is called ambient field. If the room is small of course this approach won't yield any useful results.

[Silent Bob]

Let me put it this way.  I had an old bed in the corner of my studio my sister left from when she was in process of moving to a new house.  I took the bed out of the studio to get rid of it and even the middle of my room sounded noticably worse.  So I had to put the bed back and it's been there ever since. 

[abtech]

Where does your sister sleep now?