Recording Website

Mastering The Contours In Stems Challenge

For July we have a really interesting challenge where members can master a tune from stems.

Stems are basically sub-mixes of a mix where a stereo stem would, for instance, have nothing but the drums.  The stem would, however have the full reverb and effects used in the mix for the drums.  If you had a mix in three stems (drums, instruments & vocals) you can pull up the stems in a DAW at "0" level they would mix together to give you the full mix, exactly. 

The reason stems are used is because the processing settings which are optimum for some instruments are quite different than what you would use for other instruments, e.g. attack and release for compressing drums vs. vocals.  Also anything you did to enhance one instrument in the mix would also affect other instruments, e.g., if you wanted more vocal presence, you would also bring out the guitar in the mix.

When clients supply stems they should also supply a copy of the entire mix.  If you add the out of phase full mix to the stems there should be a complete nulling of the sound.  Many times there isn't quite absolute nulling unless the DAW has very good "time compensation" built in.

The tune we are going to mix for this challenge is "Cry To Me" by the Contours.  This tune was originally recorded by Soloman Burke in 1962.  It was one of the tunes heard in the Dirty Dancing film and when the Contours went on their "Dirty Dancin Tour" they performed this song.  In 2009 the group decided to demo this and several other tunes they performed in their act.  They quickly realized that these "demos" were really master quality and contacted me to do a professional mastering job on the mixes.  I requested that they provide me with stems.

The group has given me permission to use the mixes & masters for educational purposes, which I have done in several of my classes and seminars on mastering.  The tune is being used under the "fair use" provision of the US copyright laws (educational use clause).

You can check out the current Contours (with Silvester Potts) at http://www.thecontours.us/.  If you get a chance, see one of their shows and you'll be impressed I'm sure.

The files are available now
Cry Full Mix
Cry Drum Stem
Cry Instrument Stem
Cry Vocal Stem

If you want to keep it simple, you don't have to master using the stems - you can simply master the full mix file - but let us know this. And let us know if your are participating in this challenge.

If you run into problems using the stems, please ask for help.

Your submissions are due by Monday, July 9, 2012 at 6PM.  As always, post your submission to your web space or use a service like yousendit or dropbox.  Do NOT post the link to the url here but send it in a PM to me.

Have Fun

bob 

I *might* be in. we leave for our vacation on the eve of the 6th. If I manage to fool with it, I'll upload something. Not sure if I'd use stems or not without hearing the mix lol.

Count me in!  It will be interesting to see results with and without stem manipulation.

 

I will do Cry Full Mix

I have a question. Allowed to be involved with two mastering? First - Cry Full Mix and second - Cry Stem Mix.

Very Interesting point.  Since we are doing this challenge thang for educational purposes I say yes.  I'm disappointed that so many people have elected to not use stems.  Until you investigate using stems (by actually using them) you don't really find out what stems can do for you. 

I'D LIKE EVERYONE TO SUBMIT 2 - but it won't be required.  Please note that it would double your chances for winning!

bob 

While I'm the first to admit mastering from stems can be a great tool, I feel as a mastering engineer, it should be as last resort.  On a side note, stems are very common in mixing audio for cinema, because it #1, gets around the problems with the existing masters (slammed) and #2, allows creative mixing to work in context with the rest of the movie.  In fact, more than one very successful mixing engineer say that if a mastering engineer requests stems for anything other than cinema work, find another engineer.  Their reasoning is the mastering engineer is #1, undermining the mixer's ability and #2 are mixing themselves, which isn't their job.  Therefore, if there's problems with the mix in my opinion, I'll first ask the mixer what he/she thinks of the mix.  If they admit there's a problem, I'll first request a remix.  If they cna't do that, I'll request stems under the condition *IF* the mixer admits there's problems with the mix and that those problems cannot be handled with 2-channel manipulation.  In such a case, I request JUST enough stems to take care of the immediate issue.  I haven't actually started to work on this particular master yet, but I have the feeling that there's nothing wrong with it that would warrant such treatment.  Actually, requesting tracks can even be a problem if you're mixing.  I got a project to mix where the whole performance was really raw, but the harmony vocals were pitch corrected into pure robotic deadness and it totally didn't fit.  I asked if I could get non-pitch corrected harmonies and the recording engineer told me to take a hike.

Sometimes I'll request something like a normal mix and a vocal-up mix (where the lead vocal has been raised 1dB).  This seems to be more acceptable to mixing engineers since they are doing the mixing work and it ensures the most important part of the mix stays well-placed.  Sometimes, I'll cut back & forth between the two mixes.  In extreme cases, I have subtracted the normal mix from the vocal-up mix in order to get the vocal on its own, which can then be added to or subtracted from the unprocessed normal mix.  That only works if they are mixing from and to synchronized digital platforms or are working in the box.

While I'm the first to admit mastering from stems can be a great tool, I feel as a mastering engineer, it should be as last resort.  On a side note, stems are very common in mixing audio for cinema, because it #1, gets around the problems with the existing masters (slammed) and #2, allows creative mixing to work in context with the rest of the movie.  In fact, more than one very successful mixing engineer say that if a mastering engineer requests stems for anything other than cinema work, find another engineer.  Their reasoning is the mastering engineer is #1, undermining the mixer's ability and #2 are mixing themselves, which isn't their job.  Therefore, if there's problems with the mix in my opinion, I'll first ask the mixer what he/she thinks of the mix.  If they admit there's a problem, I'll first request a remix.  If they cna't do that, I'll request stems under the condition *IF* the mixer admits there's problems with the mix and that those problems cannot be handled with 2-channel manipulation.  In such a case, I request JUST enough stems to take care of the immediate issue.  I haven't actually started to work on this particular master yet, but I have the feeling that there's nothing wrong with it that would warrant such treatment.  Actually, requesting tracks can even be a problem if you're mixing.  I got a project to mix where the whole performance was really raw, but the harmony vocals were pitch corrected into pure robotic deadness and it totally didn't fit.  I asked if I could get non-pitch corrected harmonies and the recording engineer told me to take a hike.

Sometimes I'll request something like a normal mix and a vocal-up mix (where the lead vocal has been raised 1dB).  This seems to be more acceptable to mixing engineers since they are doing the mixing work and it ensures the most important part of the mix stays well-placed.  Sometimes, I'll cut back & forth between the two mixes.  In extreme cases, I have subtracted the normal mix from the vocal-up mix in order to get the vocal on its own, which can then be added to or subtracted from the unprocessed normal mix.  That only works if they are mixing from and to synchronized digital platforms or are working in the box.

Here's how I feel:

Mastering in stems always has the potential of giving a better master than mastering without stems.  One should not assume that just because stems are being used that the mix needs "correction" or that the purpose of using stems is to alter the mix. 

Here's an interesting way of looking at it.  Tell me how multiband compression isn't mastering in stems.  In multiband compression you are making artificial stems based on frequency ranges. 

I would rather base the compression parameters used according to the nature of the instruments, rather than on the basis of frequency. 

bob 

The point of loudness is important.  I think it woud be a good choice if we were aiming for compentative (rather than "absolute") loudness.

bob

I agree but unfortunately today "competitive" level is very close to "absolute" level.

I'll keep the following short so I won't get out of context.
I strongly believe that to achieve a certain loudness level at mastering while doing no extensive damage to the material, one must start at tracking. In many styles you'll have the drums/percussion responsible for much of the high transients that need to be brought down. Track those with mics and pres that are a bit slower in response and use a decent limiter [or a series of limiters] at tracking so you already have a basis to work on.

In any case I really congratulate you on your transparent compression technique. It's got potential...